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Welcome to the Discussion page. This forum is for discussing scenes from mainstream sources, primarily TV shows and movies, but we venture off into newspaper and magazine articles, stage plays, and other areas. Please do not post regarding commercial videos.
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| Tuesday June 21 00:07:05 2005 KDOC alerts |
| There has been a lot of debate lately about posting VCR alerts on the Discussion page. Mentioning when you have posted various alerts can be helpful, like so:
I just posted VCR alerts for shows on KDOC (channel 56 Los Angeles / Anaheim area) during the next couple of weeks. They incluse Kojak, Magnum P.I. and The Rockford Files. There was supposed to be a scene from Hawaii Five-O coming up soon, but they did not have details on certain days at the website. |
| Tapemaster |
| km574@yahoo.com |
| http://www.kdoctv.net |
| Tuesday June 21 00:09:56 2005 At long, long, last... |
| ...I managed to make it downtown to the main library branch and check out the cover of the 1987 first edition of Krin and Glen Gabbard's "Psychiatry and the Cinema," which, according to someone here, featured the long-sought-after (by me) image of Katharine Hepburn bound to a chair in what was apparently a publicity still for "Bringing Up Baby." I am happy to report that this is indeed the case; furthermore, those of you who can only find the 1990 second edition of the book-or the original without its dust jacket-need not fret, since the picture is reproduced for your convenience on page 20 of both editions.
Well, so much for that. What I really want to get into is speculation on just why Hepburn would pose for such a picture-or why, for that matter would such a scene even be conceived of-when it wasn't incorporated into the movie? Now, I don't want this to degenerate into any of the past nonsense we've seen around here about "no-bondage clauses" and the like. because if it does, I'm sure der Fuehr...oops, sorry, I mean the Moderator-won't hesitate to jackboot this thread to Valhalla...er, ah, I mean delete it as irrelevant, incompetent, and immaterial (thanks, William Talman, I always knew that favorite line of yours from "Perry Mason" would come in handy someday). Anyway, given that Hepburn DID do a full-treatment scene two decades later in "The Iron Petticoat," I'm not inclined to believe that it was reluctance on her part-at least not totally- that sent the "Bringing Up Baby" scene fluttering to the floor of the cutting room, if indeed it was really filmed at all. One would think that at 31 she would be more disposed to do it than she would have been when she was nearly fifty and actually did. Then again, there was that sequence near the end of "The African Queen" when she was 44, where she and Bogie are about to be hanged on the German ship's deck after the captain assents to their request that he marry them ("By the authority invested in me by Kaiser Wilhelm the Second, I now pronounce you man and wife. Proceed with the execution!"). A sailor pulls her arms behind her to bind her wrists, but just as he's about to wrap them with the rope, the ship is rocked by the explosion of the couple's makeshift torpedo, sending everyone sprawling to the deck and giving them an avenue to escape. Now that I think about it, however, that was probably a necessary plot device; it would have been a little difficult for Hepburn to swim away with her hands tied behind her back, wouldn't it? (On the other hand, the sailor could have tied Hepburn first and the torpedo could have gone off just as he was about to do Bogie, necessitating a quick rescue shot as the ship sank...but now I'm thinking like a scriptwriter, aren't I?) Weighing against Hepburn, of course, is the fact that "The Iron Petticoat" was her only scene to make it onto the big screen. Granted, she rarely played roles where she was likely to get into a tieup, but Maureen O'Hara, for one, managed to get into them rather often, and over a career that spanned a lot fewer years. Maybe Hepburn really did have an aversion to playing women likely to get bound, and, as was suggested here some time back, only did it that one time out of deference to either her co-star Bob Hope, or someone else she owed a favor to. Those are the possibilities as I see them. Anyone think of more? |
| Fettershackle |
| Tuesday June 21 01:01:19 2005 Re: At long, long, last... |
| Fettershackle wrote:
> {Snip}> > Well, so much for that. What I really want to get into > is speculation on just why Hepburn would pose for such a > picture-or why, for that matter would such a scene even > be conceived of-when it wasn't incorporated into the > movie? The scene wound up on the cutting room floor. Mystery solved. Pity this was before the days of DVD's & deleted scenes. :-) This isn't the only such instance of a cut DiD-scene. Record number: 2216 Title: The Power (1968) Medium: Movie Actress: Suzanne Pleshette Description: The following scene was reportedly in the original theatrical release and edited out for TV. So far no versions existing today seem to contain the scene. Margery Lanzing (Pleshette) is kidnapped by the bad guys, in ye olde "bait-for-the-good-guy" plot. She's tightly bound by the heavy (Nehemiah Persoff) and gagged over the hair with a hankerchief folded in a triangle. After the hero, George Hamilton wins the fight with the villian and forces him to untie the damsel, she remarks, "You certainly did a good job of tieing me up!" If you care about the plot, this above-average scifi yarn involves a man who discovers he has the power to move objects and tries to learn who's trying to knock him off. |
| Van |
| vvvan@earthlink.net |
| http://www.restrainedtastes.com/van/ |
| Tuesday June 21 01:31:23 2005 Re: At long, long, last... |
| Fettershackle wrote:
> it does, I'm sure der Fuehr...oops, sorry, I mean the *ahem* Fuhrer *ahem* ;) |
| GrammarNazi |
| Tuesday June 21 02:29:59 2005 Re: At long, long, last... |
| GrammarNazi wrote:
> Fettershackle wrote: > > it does, I'm sure der Fuehr...oops, sorry, I mean > the > > *ahem* Fuhrer *ahem* ;) > It can be spelled either way ... check with your local despot for preference. |
| Biff |
| http://community.webtv.net/unlikelysource/TheCaseFilesofBiff |
| Tuesday June 21 02:55:15 2005 Re: At long, long, last... |
| Van wrote:
> Fettershackle wrote: > > > {Snip}> > > Well, so much for that. What I really want to get > into > > is speculation on just why Hepburn would pose for > such a > > picture-or why, for that matter would such a scene > even > > be conceived of-when it wasn't incorporated into the > > > movie? > > The scene wound up on the cutting room floor. Mystery > solved. Pity this was before the days of DVD's & > deleted scenes. :-) > > This isn't the only such instance of a cut DiD-scene. > > Record number: 2216 > > Title: The Power (1968) > Medium: Movie > Actress: Suzanne Pleshette > > Description: The following scene was reportedly in the > original theatrical release and edited out for TV. So far > no versions existing today seem to contain the scene. > As I mentioned when we discussed this a while back, I saw The Power in first-run release (I had seen the poster with the picture in question, and was REALLY looking forward to it), and the scene was not included. It must have hit the cutting room floor before it was released. |
| Jeb |
| jebdel@yahoo.com |
| http://www.homestead.com/jebsadventurebound |
| Tuesday June 21 05:33:16 2005 Re: Site Update |
| CollectorX wrote:
> Penelope Cruz from "Open Your Eyes"; and an Great update, but the actress tied in "Abre los Ojos" is Nawja Nimri. Cameron Diaz played her role in "Vanilla Sky". |
| Tuesday June 21 05:56:19 2005 Dark Crystal |
| I just watched this movie earlier tonight for the first time, more than two decades after its release. It is animated, with animatronic puppets designed by master puppeteer Jim Henson.
It is a fantasy with no human characters that takes place on a planet with three suns. The heroes are two human-like elvish beings called Gelflings, one a male named Jen and the other a female named Kira. Anyway, late in the movie, Kira is captured by one of the villains, demonic beings who resemble mutated vultures and cackle maniacally. She is secured into a chair with restraints at the wrists and ankles, but not gagged. How would I compose a Database Entry for this scene? |
| Hadji |
| Tuesday June 21 07:36:04 2005 Re: Site Update |
| (unsigned poster) wrote:
> Great update, but the actress tied in "Abre los > Ojos" is Nawja Nimri. Cameron Diaz played her role > in "Vanilla Sky". Thanks, and thanks to those who messaged me. I usually hit the DB when I'm uncertain, but I think last night I was too fixated on getting the update right with the new format. :) |
| CollectorX |
| cx@collectorx.net |
| http://www.gagsnroses.com |
| Tuesday June 21 11:12:13 2005 Re: Dark Crystal |
| Hadji wrote:
> She is secured into a chair with restraints > at the wrists and ankles, but not gagged. > How would I compose a Database Entry for this scene? "Female puppet is secured into a chair with restraints at the wrists and ankles, but not gagged." |
| Anubis |
| Tuesday June 21 12:06:08 2005 Nomenclature/Web Pages? |
| Not exactly on topic, but not entirely off... is there a name for, or web pages devoted to, women in situations not pleasant, but not involving being B&G? I am talking stuff like the Lois and Clark episode (title?) in which Lois is trapped on an exercise machine that will detonate if she doesn't keep up with it... and it is speeding up... Or the Avengers ep in which Emma Peel is trapped in a giant birdcage, but not bound or gagged. The Bird Cage in Barbarella comes to mind, as well as the Excessive Machine...
While I am posting, anyone have access to the original Euro-cut of Barbarella, the one with Babs and the Black Queen making out, and possibly a boiling oil scene? The only thing available now is the 1976 reissue print, minus the good stuff and with "Queen of the Galaxy" added to the title. Wish I had a contact at DeLaurentis... |
| Pygar |
| pygar2@yahooodottcom |
| Tuesday June 21 13:35:06 2005 Re: Dark Crystal |
| Anubis wrote:
> "Female puppet is secured into a chair with > restraints at the wrists and ankles, but not gagged." Sounds like a contender to knock Miss Penelope of the Thunderbirds out of the all time top scenes slot. |
| Major John |
| Tuesday June 21 13:51:29 2005 Re: Dark Crystal |
| Major John wrote:
> Sounds like a contender to knock Miss Penelope of the > Thunderbirds out of the all time top scenes slot. Nah, not even close. Miss Penelope still holds the title as the reigning queen of puppet bondage. Dark Crystal is a good movie, by the way. |
| Anubis |
| Tuesday June 21 13:51:44 2005 Re: Dark Crystal |
| Hadji wrote:
> How would I compose a Database Entry for this scene? > I think you just did. Couple ways to go with this, to my mind: You can deal with it as you would any live-action film, obviously making clear the fact that we're talking puppetry here ... or you can (and this makes more sense to me, since you should list the voice talent) play it as animated fare, same as a toon. |
| Biff |
| http://community.webtv.net/unlikelysource/TheCaseFilesofBiff |
| Tuesday June 21 14:20:55 2005 puppets |
| okay, speaking of the Dark Crystal then, there's 2 entries not yet included in the database, if anyone wants to add them: Team America- World Police is a puppet movie but includes a bondage scene, and The Muppet Movie includes Miss Piggy being tied up. I didn't think about adding those scenes, but if the database is expanding to puppets & animation, and its looking for completeness, those could be included too. |
| valkyrie |
| http://valthesub.net |
| Tuesday June 21 14:33:39 2005 Re: puppets |
| > to add them: Team America- World Police is a puppet movie
> but includes a bondage scene, Two bondage scenes actually, one with the Susan Sarandon puppet and the other with the 'lead actress' puppet |
| Tuesday June 21 14:35:49 2005 Re: Dark Crystal |
| Anubis wrote:
> Major John wrote: > Sounds like a contender to knock Miss Penelope of > the Thunderbirds out of the all time top scenes slot. **** Nah, not even close. Miss Penelope still holds the title as the reigning queen of puppet bondage. Dark Crystal is a good movie, by the way. ****** Hey Zinger, appears these old fellas don't realise Miss Penelope, or "Miss Penelopee" only picked lottery numbers huh? Likely Miss Penelope's school teacher type personality why the Major caught up on her. ;) ======= Anyway, the boy here will sort: Same as Lady Penelope (Voiced by Sylvia Anderson) so Kira (Voiced by Kathryn Mullen) For Dark Crystal |
| Jay L |
| http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083791/ |
| Tuesday June 21 14:42:47 2005 Hostage |
| Decent scene with Michelle Horn in "Hostage," although they took the white tape-gag off way too quickly. Couple of decent shots of her B&G, one a mid-range shot and a second closeup, although the lighting is poor. Earlier, the bad guy had her on a security camera setup, where you see Michelle B&G on a dozen or so monitors, but no great shots there either.
If you're looking for a good deal, Hollywood Video is offering a 99-cent rental for one day on this movie. Don't know whether that's a permanent thing for new rentals, but worked well in this spot. I rented the VHS, so don't know whether there's anything extra on the DVD. Also, an interesting copyright case at the link posted. I know we can't discuss it here, but it's an interesting read and a little concerning that some media company (unnamed) could shut this celeb-photo site down with a threat. |
| http://www.thebabeindex.com/ |
| Tuesday June 21 14:48:15 2005 Re: puppets |
| valkyrie wrote:
> I didn't think about > adding those scenes, but if the database is expanding to > puppets & animation, and its looking for > completeness, those could be included too. > Animated scenes have been in the DB at least since I've been around here (closing in on six years). Currently, 411 entries have "animated" in the Actress field, the accepted method of denoting such sequences. There may be a few other "outlaws". I've had a hand in a significant number, if not the majority, of those. I could rationalize it as purely an affinity for drawn art involving this fetish ... but it might have as much to do with whatever childhood I'm up to now. |
| Tuesday June 21 15:05:12 2005 Re: puppets |
| valkyrie wrote:
> Miss Piggy being tied up. Miss Piggy is an actor's voice. Normally Frank Oz. Recall Brian didn't want men impersonating women scenes in there |
| Jay L |
| http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0000568/ |
| Tuesday June 21 16:16:15 2005 Re: puppets |
| > Recall Brian didn't want men impersonating women scenes
> in there How about women impersonating men (ie Bart Simpson)? |
| Tuesday June 21 16:28:47 2005 Re: puppets |
| (unsigned poster) wrote:
> Two bondage scenes actually, one with the Susan Sarandon > puppet YOU SHALL DIE A PEASENTS DEATH! |
| Susan Sarandon |
| Tuesday June 21 16:31:59 2005 Re: puppets |
| > Two bondage scenes actually, one with the Susan
> Sarandon puppet A pretty nice chair tie, too bad it wasn't with the real McCoy |
| Tuesday June 21 17:01:46 2005 Re: Dark Crystal |
| Biff wrote:
> Hadji wrote: > > > How would I compose a Database Entry for this > scene? > > > > I think you just did. > > Couple ways to go with this, to my mind: You can deal > with it as you would any live-action film, obviously > making clear the fact that we're talking puppetry here > ... or you can (and this makes more sense to me, since > you should list the voice talent) play it as animated fare, same as a toon. I'd like to thank all of you for all your sensible advice. I just composed a new Entry to the already voluminous Database. I listed Kathryn Mullen as the voice talent behind Kira, the female puppet who is secured to the chair late in the movie. I also mentioned that the characters are animatronic puppets. |
| Hadji |
| Tuesday June 21 17:03:28 2005 Re: puppets |
| (unsigned poster) wrote:
> > Two bondage scenes actually, one with the Susan > > Sarandon puppet > > A pretty nice chair tie, too bad it wasn't with the real > McCoy > Was either of these female puppets gagged? Since an Entry for this movie does not yet exist in the voluminous Scene Database, I thought asking this question might be justified. |
| Hadji |
| Tuesday June 21 17:11:06 2005 Re: puppets |
| > Was either of these female puppets gagged?
Nope |
| Tuesday June 21 17:16:35 2005 Re: puppets |
| (unsigned poster) wrote:
> > Recall Brian didn't want men impersonating women > scenes in there ***** How about women impersonating men (ie Bart Simpson)? **** Figured wouldn't able to get away without looking up. Give a sec |
| Jay L |
| Tuesday June 21 17:19:10 2005 Re: puppets |
| (unsigned poster) wrote:
> 411 entries have "animated" in the Actress > field, the accepted method of denoting such sequences. > There may be a few other "outlaws". Figure Unsigned = Biffy? Yeah, recall the pig an outlaw and had to delete it |
| Jay L |
| Tuesday June 21 18:07:41 2005 Re: puppets |
| > Figured wouldn't able to get away without looking up.
Give a sec Okay, learned Miss Piggy and Tickling Elmo both fellas around Sept 23rd 2003. Here what Brian posted after ejecting the pig: ======= Record number: 9124 Title: Muppet Show Medium: TV Series Actress: Miss Piggy "Ummm, I deleted this. I do require the entries reference humans." ============== {Homepage Link} Brian's reply to Male impersonating Nancy Cartwright in Bart Simpson show when it first brought up. |
| Jay L |
| http://brianspage.com/showday.php?fname=dbcorrect%2Fhtml%2F050-2004 |
| Tuesday June 21 19:02:38 2005 Re: Nomenclature/Web Pages? |
| Pygar wrote:
> Not exactly on topic, but not entirely off... is there a > name for, or web pages devoted to, women in situations > not pleasant, but not involving being B&G? I am > talking stuff like the Lois and Clark episode (title?) in > which Lois is trapped on an exercise machine that will > detonate if she doesn't keep up with it... and it is > speeding up... Or the Avengers ep in which Emma Peel is > trapped in a giant birdcage, but not bound or gagged. The > Bird Cage in Barbarella comes to mind, as well as the > Excessive Machine... I've given this issue deep thought. ...no, really! :-) I've always considered the true focus of our hobby (obsession, passion, whatever) to be the Damsel-in-Distress, *not* the Damsel-in-Bondage. Bondage is important, but not absolutely essential... usually. Okay, it almost always *is*, but there *ARE* exceptions. The three scenes above are examples. Two other examples of bondage-less DiD-scenes that ring *my* chimes are: (1) Sharon Stone in "Scissors" (http://imdb.com/title/tt0102860/)---She's trapped in an empty, hi-tech apartment with auto-locking doors & unbreakable windows. Zero bondage, but the city's all around her, she can see people in the streets far below... but she's trapped!! (2) Julianne Moore in "Hannibal" (http://imdb.com/title/tt0212985/)---I'm talking the scene towards the very end where she wakes up dressed in that GORGEOUS black gown & drugged to the point where she's weak & can barely move. The scene where Dr. L traps her in the kitchen her by closing the refrigerator door on her hair? Yum! So... no "actual" bondage, but *other* factors that make a DiD-scene memorable are all there, with at least some of them spiking at or near max values. How do we deal with it? Imagine a table of critical DiD factors: ACTRESS, BONDAGE, & PERIL are the categories (others may be possible), & each gets a QUALITY score of some sort. So, any or all of the scenes above would have high QUALITY scores for ACTRESS & PERIL, and "0" or "N/A" for BONDAGE. The problem is the *subjective* nature of the DiD concept. One person's precious gem is another's pretty rock. QUALITY as a category is problematic, but a narrow, legalistic, mandatory-bondage approach eliminates difficult-to-categorize-yet-yummy scenes like the ones under discussion. Anyhoo... the DiD is *notoriously* difficult to pigeonhole. She defies empirical constraint! I've tried! :-) |
| Van |
| vvvan@earthlink.net |
| http://www.restrainedtastes.com/van/ |
| Tuesday June 21 19:26:48 2005 SMG in Alice Movie? |
| This from the Dark Horizons website:
------- Universal Pictures is making "Alice," an adaptation of video game "American McGee's Alice," with Sarah Michelle Gellar attached to star for "Texas Chainsaw Massacre" director Marcus Nispel says The Hollywood Reporter. "Alice" is based on the Electronic Arts game created by American McGee, a lead designer of the "Quake" and "Doom" series of games. EA's game is based on Lewis Carroll's "Alice in Wonderland" novels, which are in the public domain. Erich and Jon Hoeber will adapt the screenplay. In the game, Alice has grown up to become a disturbed young woman. After her parents are killed in a fire, Alice returns to Wonderland, a dark and threatening place of looking glasses, mysterious potions, nonsensical tea parties and talking animals, confronting her fears and the wicked Queen of Hearts. ------- I've never played the game, but I get the impression it has more in common with Hellraiser than Disney. Does anyone know if anything DiD-ish might be in store for our Sarah Michelle? |
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| Van |
| vvvan@earthlink.net |
| http://www.restrainedtastes.com/van/ |
| Tuesday June 21 20:42:44 2005 Re: puppets |
| Jay L wrote:
> Figure Unsigned = Biffy? > I thought I signed it ... maybe not ... but the Reply feature was a bit wonky, with my initially getting *my* previous post instead of Valkyrie's. > Yeah, > recall the pig an outlaw and had to delete it > By "outlaw", I meant those entries that pre-dated the "'Animated' in Actress field" convention, and might have missed being brought up to specs ... or entries after the fact that similarly may have slipped through the cracks. |
| Biff |
| Tuesday June 21 20:53:59 2005 Re: puppets |
| Jay L wrote:
> Miss Piggy is an actor's voice. Normally Frank Oz. > > Recall Brian didn't want men impersonating women scenes > in there I most especially limit the DB to humans or humanoids. Piggy don't qualify. |
| Brian R |
| Tuesday June 21 20:54:59 2005 Re: puppets |
| (unsigned poster) wrote:
> How about women impersonating men (ie Bart Simpson)? Obviously not. |
| Brian R |
| Tuesday June 21 21:03:01 2005 Re: puppets |
| Biff wrote:
> By "outlaw", I meant those entries that pre-dated the "'Animated' in Actress field" convention, and might have missed being brought up to specs ... or entries after the fact that similarly may have slipped through the cracks. ========= Thought went through thorough, see any like this let know over on DB Correct Thanks |
| Jay L |
| Tuesday June 21 21:05:40 2005 Re: Nomenclature/Web Pages? |
| Pygar wrote:
Not exactly on topic, but not entirely off... is there a name for, or web pages devoted to, women in situations not pleasant _________________________________ Take your pick! |
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| Rich |
| bindherupx@yahoo.com |
| http://darksites.net/Menu.htm |
| Tuesday June 21 21:21:09 2005 DiDs w/ & w/o Bondage |
| > I've always considered the true focus of our hobby (obsession, passion, whatever) to be the Damsel-in-Distress, *not* the Damsel-in-Bondage. Bondage
is important, but not absolutely essential... usually. > that make a DiD-scene memorable are all there, with at least some of them spiking at or near max values. How do we deal with it? Imagine a table of critical DiD factors: ACTRESS, BONDAGE, & PERIL are the categories (others may be possible), & each gets a QUALITY score of some sort. So, any or all of the scenes above would have high QUALITY scores for ACTRESS & PERIL, and "0" or "N/A" for BONDAGE. ---- While I'm admittedly a Gag-snob, Van's sample rating system does have a number of merits (and can't be further off-base, than say, NCAA Football's BCS rating system). A prime example for me would be "Private Obsession" (1995), with actress Shannon Whirry kidnapped and held captive in a room with numerous hidden cameras. Yes, she does has a brief B&g scene. But much more interesting to me was the scene where she comes up with the idea of stripping naked to try to escape thru the doggy-door -- but gets stuck halfway thru. Her captor (just how did his agent land him this part?!) generously uses oleo margarine to lubricate Whirry's "torso" to enable her to wriggle free. :-) |
| Kinky-napper |
| Tuesday June 21 21:45:12 2005 DiDs w/ & w/o Bondage |
| I shoulda mentioned the "Jungian archetype": Carrie Fischer as Jabba the Hut's captive slavegirl in "Return of the Jedi".
I mean, if you first saw the scene pop onto the big screen and disappointedly groused about how Jabba *only* tamed the fiery Leia with a couple patronizing tugs on her collar chain... methinks you're taking bondage on mainstream media far too seriously... |
| Kinky-napper |
| Tuesday June 21 23:05:38 2005 Re: At long, long, last... |
| >Those are the possibilities as I see them. Anyone think of >more?
Yeah. It's not that complicated. It was in the script, they did what it said in the script. That's what actors do. Especially back then, under the studio system. "Okay, in this scene, you play with a leopard." "In this scene you get the back of your skirt torn off." "In this scene you're strapped to a chair." And it was a comedy. She wasn't exactly naked on a bed. BTW, I sent Anubis a copy of the picture. I expect he'll get around to posting it eventually, so you can all see what the fuss was about. |
| Paul |
| Tuesday June 21 23:24:26 2005 Horror Fun. |
| I love horror. Partly because it's almost always got some form of DiD, bound, gagged, or neither. Regardless, I've made fome finds in my latest copy of Fangoria magazine.
First off, Devil's Rejects is a definite good-to-go as far as DiD goes. Director Rob Zombie seems to realize bound and gagged women in horror are a great way to set a dismal mood, and freak out the audience, so he's done it again. One page has a nice shot of some maniac in the background, terrorizing a brunette dressed in only a button up shirt in the foreground. She is gagged with a white cloth, knotted at the mouth in her lips. Bloody stuff, though. Second, is their feature on "Shallow Ground". I have yet to read what the movie is about, but one print shows another brunette (yesss .. lovin' the brunettes) tied AOH in the woods, naked, with a black cleave. Attractive girl, too. The caption is pure cheese, but I love it: "If bodies fall in the woods, a gag will assure they don't make a sound." |
| X |
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